A couple of questions on sharpness

Hi:

I'm not sure whether this belongs here or in honing, so please let me know if I'm in the wrong place. I'm just returning to SR shaving after 35+ years. I bought a new Dovo special, not made shave ready. I have experience honing my chisels and plane blades, but not razors. I have read lots of the great advice on honing on this forum, and watched a number of youtube videos.

I've done 3 shaves so far.
First shave - out of the box, just to see what it was like. It pulled going wtg, so I finished up with my DE.
Second shave - did some honing - some circular laps on the 4000, then the 8000. Stropped and shaved. The face shaved smoothly with no pulling, and was able to get a decent 2 pass on most of the face, but lots of pulling and not much cutting on the tough chin and neck stubble.
Third shave - I did a careful 20 passes on the 8000 with almost no pressure, an away from the edge stroke in case there was a burr, then 20 strokes on the canvas strop and 50 on leather. That shave was very decent, cheeks, upper lip and chin went smoothly with no puling.
But here's the issue. I was expecting to get to a sharpness where the blade would slice through the tough chin and neck growth, and it does cut it now, but it tends to 'catch' a few times before cutting. Hope I'm explaining that right. I use a light grip on the blade, and I don't want to get rough with it.

So, my questions:
- am i looking for more sharpness than I should be? I would like that blade to move through the toughest stubble without being forced. Is that unrealistic?
- if it should be that sharp, what would you recommend as my next step? More strokes on the 8000? Back to the 4000 first and then the 8000? Other?

Any advice would be appreciated.

Get a well honed blade from the guys that shave with them, then you will know what the edge should be, as a new guy who has never had that, how will you know?' I thought I knew sharp, it was a wake up when I got one done. The problem is, it takes time to get the edge experience, and not knowing where it should be is tough to learn. Tc

Start here, if you can do that, then your technique needs adjustment for the more difficult spots :)

http://straightrazorpalace.com/video...-test-vid.html

Think about a jeweler's loupe (or small microscope). It will cost only a few dollars but once you have a good edge as a comparison you will be able to see that emerge on other razors as you hone. It's much easier than guessing

If you find someone that can show you a properly sharpened razor it will help tremendously. Or send it out to be pro honed. Either way, you need to know what level of sharpness you are aiming for.
There is also technique - the chin is a tough spot to shave.

If it doesn't pass the Glenn Shave Test, then I'd bet the bevel isn't set yet.
Go back and do the 4000 again with a little pressure, then the 4000 with no pressure, and then 8000 with no pressure. Strop and try the shave test again.

Listen to Glen. I shaved off an 8k for a year before I went farther. All the other stuff adds to the fun AND the sharp but will you notice ? Not right off the bat. I am glad I waited until I got the basics down and you will too. What your trying is very possible with what you have.

So, new Dovo’s are final honed with the spine lifted off the stone, so as not to scratch up the spine.

Unless you honed with tape, you probably did not hone to the edge completely. When the razor is on the stone the edge is lifted off the stone because the angle is wrong. You will have to fully set the bevel to sharpen the edge.

Get some magnification as said, and look at the edge, straight down. If you see any shiny reflections you do not have a fully set bevel and sharp edge.

Then put a layer of tape on the spine and ink the bevel, take one stroke and see if you are honing to the edge from heel to toe on both sides.

Looking at the edge should be your first check at the slightest problem. There are many good threads in the Honing Forum, check out “Second Try at Honing”, for good photos of what to look for and good information.

Thanks for all the good info gents. Euclid440, your explanation of Dovo's honing really helps to understand why the performance is not great. Gssixguns, I watched your sharpness video last night. I also found your video where you showed someone else how to hone properly - that was a huge help. So, this weekend I'm going to sit down with that video and do a proper job, taped, and going through 4000 and 8000 as shown. I'll also try to find a loupe before then.
I'll post back with results, hopefully good ones.

Cheers.

Simply put, odds are high that your bevels are not fully set so you need to spend more time on the 4k. After that, 10 to 15 strokes on the 8k will be all you need to finish.

Good progress I think. I had Friday off, so I spent some time with Glen's video (the one with Mark honing). Followed along exactly. At the end it still wouldn't pass the HHT, but this morning it gave me a much better and closer shave. But, still not exactly slicing through the chin stubble as effortlessly as I'd like it to, and was a bit uncomfortable.
So, this morning I had a nice relaxed honing session. Probably about 25 passes on the 4000, with very little pressure, and probably about 50 on the 8000, doing a thumb check and cleaning the stone after every 10. So, I haven't got anything to shave right now :( but - for the first time, doing the HHT on my arm, hair pops off it like mad.
It might actually be 'shave ready now. Will find out tomorrow morning.

Well, this morning's shave was much more like what I expected from a straight razor. The blade didn't stop for anything and I got a great shave. I just need to figure out how to get against the grain on the underside of the chin and it will be perfect, but I guess that will take time. Thanks again for all the good advice here. I'm pretty confident now about getting the stone out when necessary. In a week or so I'll get to compare it to a professional hone - I ordered a new King Cutter that will be honed before shipping. Again, thanks - this board is a great resource.

Martin.

Thought I'd post a 'lessons learned' to close this off. After my last post I had one more session with the Dovo on the 8000, nothing heavy, just another 20 or 30 gentle laps. It just seemed to hit a sweet spot after that. Then I received my professionally honed King Cutter. It was very sharp, but by that time my Dovo is equally sharp and actually a bit smoother. So, the lessons learned are:
- getting a professionally honed straight is a great idea, to set a benchmark for your own efforts
- with the great info and support available on the site, I would say don't fear doing your own honing as well
- the advice to get a loupe was great as well - watching the coarse scratches get smoother confirmed I needed to keep going on the 8000

I'm now enjoying great SR shaves, alternating the two razors (when I'm not rushing off to work) and now have the confidence to keep both blades in top shape.

Thanks again for all the good pointers.